INTRODUCTION THREAD: People affected by Hep B

Dear @Karp,

So it appears you have had a fairly successful resolution of your acute HBV infection in the past and now have partial cure of HBV (more recently with normal ALT and HBV DNA < 2000 IU/mL in the absence of therapy in June 2023). Indeed your HBV DNA is quite low here at 62 IU/mL. Your HBV virology results are consistent with this (especially your HBeAg seroconversion). With partial cure in place, we rarely see progression of liver disease and oral antiviral therapy is not currently recommended in patients with partial cure.

Your November ultrasound describes unremarkable signs in a liver and kidneys of a older man and importantly no liver cancer and no signs of portal hypertension (no splenomegaly). ALT and liver function are still normal here, indicating the absence of liver inflammation.

The findings of this ultrasound appear to be at odds with the Fibroscan performed in the hepatologists office a month later (which hospital in Canada?) suggesting early cirrhosis. It is unusual for transition in liver status to occur so quickly and you have no liver biopsy results or more recent liver function results to clarify this confusion.

It is not clear to me that your chronic HBV infection (which your immune system appears to have got partially under control) is the cause for the recent finding of elevated liver stiffness. Taking oral antiviral therapy will not harm you, but with your latest HBV DNA of 62 IU/mL in June 2023 it is not clear if it will help.

Here are my suggestions which you should discuss with your doctor:

  1. Retest HBV DNA and HBsAg with a quantitative test platform as soon as possible.
  2. Test for HDV co-infection (HDV RNA). If you had an undiagnosed HDV co-infection, it might explain rapid changes in liver status with partial cure of HBV in place (however ALT should be elevated in this case).
  3. Retest ALT AST bilirubin albumin INR and platelets.
  4. Your liver stiffness might be due to very recent increases in fat deposits in your liver which could have nothing to do with your HBV infection. Additional imaging (MRI) and or liver biopsy might be indicated here to sort out the confusion.

@availlant

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Welcome @Kingzy

Thank you for sharing your story and I’m sorry you are in financial stress.
The doctor is right about not stopping treatment. It’s very important not to stop
I hope your results will be fine and you will be able to start treatment again.
Not sure why you were one two medications, usually one tablet a day. Tenofovir , so you could save on medication by having to only take one a day.
Keep us informed There is a Nigerian information here on our site. Not sure where.
Maybe others could help.
@ThomasTu

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Hi Caraline.

Thanks for your reply. So glad your viral load is low and HBsAg undetectable. That’s very encouraging and speaks well of antivirals. You must be feeling great relief!

I think I will delay using an antiviral until I’m reasonably sure it is the right thing to do in my particular case. I’m hoping to book more testing, based on Andrew Vaillant’s suggestions, when I see my doctor at the end of the month.

Thanks again, Caraline.

Thank you so much for giving up your limited time to consider my medical history and for giving me your thoughtful and informed suggestions. You guys on this forum are amazing and so unbelievably helpful. Such a rare thing these days…

While it seemed prudent to delay a decision on antivirals until at least May, when I’d see the results of the next ultrasound and blood panel (required every six months by Public Health Ontario), I was very anxious about the chance of further damage over those six intervening months. My plan had been to find another clinic to repeat the Fibroscan and make a decision either to delay for a further six months or take the antiviral if things looked grim. My thoughts were that if it has taken 56 years to develop early cirrhosis – assuming a steady progression – then six months would be a reasonable gamble. There was also the faint hope that within that six months to a year, HBsAg would spontaneously disappear. All of this, so very stressful!

There is a pre-existing appointment with my GP, booked for 27 Feb, specifically to discuss my questions and concerns about the hepatologist’s report. Following your suggestions, I will petition my GP to, as soon as possible, re-do all the bloodwork including all your suggestions, especially the screening for HDV, and book an MRI. I will also ask him if there are any clinics in the Hamilton area who could repeat the Fibroscan since that could likely occur sooner than an MRI appointment. My December Fibroscan was performed by the hepatologist in a one-person liver clinic, not in any of the local hospitals. Because it’s more invasive, I’ll hold off on a request for a biopsy to assess all the other results first.

Again, I’m so thankful for your kindness.

Thank you for the warm welcome and replies…
Regarding the drugs I was taking, the doctor said Tenofovir was to reduce the viral replication while the livolin was to increase liver protection against damage.

Then concerning the test, only the ultrasound scan is out yet and only negative it’s showing is mild liver enlargement. I don’t know what implications it does have. Then the rest of the result, liver function and viral load/DNA panel is not out yet.
I am not one that is very good with explaining my symptoms and whenever I meet my doctor, it usually last for a short session so I prefer reading up people’s experience here and matching it up with my own.

Now, I have a serious concern, lately, I experience some kinds of burning sensation and abnormal movement in my tummy and up to my chest region( lasting up to 3 minutes after meal). Don’t know if these are symptoms that comes with the infection or what?

Welcome to the forum, @Maria_ivanova. Sorry to hear about your struggles with your diagnosis. It’s a good sign that your liver is looking healthy and that your viral load is relatively low. People with your results are generally fairly stable and do not often progress quickly to liver disease. However it is important to maintain appropriate monitoring (tests every 6 months) to determine if your status changes. I hope this community helps you get through this tough period and please keep us up to date with events in your life.

Dear @Kingzy, welcome to the community and thank you for your kind words.

I’m also sad to hear about your struggles. There are specific thread for people living in Nigeria that may be able to help:

There are several foundations in Nigeria too, if you search here by country: Member listings - World Hepatitis Alliance.

Regarding recovery after treatment, most people with liver damage stop progressing and even reverse their liver damage over time with long-term antiviral treatment (Can F2-F3 fibrosis be reversed, Fibrosis of the liver)

Hope this helps,
Thomas

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Thank you for the warm welcome and response. Some mentioned to me about using two drugs instead of one.
Please what do you have to say about my usage of Ten of over and Livolin together. They really cost alot for me. Is it possible I stick to one and I will be fine?

Thanks @ThomasTu . @Kingzy , so sorry about your ordeals. I’ll be happy to connect with you.

Hi, my name is David and I live in Canada. I was diagonoised with Chronic Hepatitis B about two and a half (2.5) years ago. The Hepatitis B diagonistic was quite a big shock to me as I was give the Hep. B vaccine, 3 doses staggered from my date of birth, however HBIG injection was not available to me at the time. I knew that my mom also have Hepatitis B, but I thought birth dose vaccination was somewhat effective at preventing vertical transmission despite not receiving HBIG. I am now starting the process to accept the fact and try to go back to living life as best as I can.

Initially, I had a lot of anxiety mainly from the stigma of having this condition and overthinking about transmission (OCDish) as I often have a perfectionist attitude towards my life. I still struggle with these thoughts. I’m in my early 30s, and I had to really bend my thinking about how I should approached this challenge. I’ve been lurking on the forums for a while now, and wanted to join this community.

I have some questions from a couple years ago that I never got a chance to ask my Doctor:

I have always been puzzled by the fact that our bodies produce anti-HBc (Hep. B core antibody), but the function of the anti-HBc seems to only act as an indicator to current or prior infections. Do anti-HBc do anything else? Do they help the body at all to fight chronic Hep. B infections?

I remembered that my initial blood work showed that I had low, ~ 0.6 UI/ml, of anti-HBs (surface protein antibodies). I thought there should be no anti-HBs at all when viral load is high in the blood since all the existing anti-HBs would have been bound to HBsAg.

Why doesn’t our immune system naturally recover from immune exhaustion towards HBV when viral load and viral expression of HBeAg drop, and start producing sufficient anti-HBs? Isn’t the Hep. B vaccine empty viral envelopes / surface protein? If that’s the case shouldn’t chronically infected individuals taking anti-virals or with low viral loads be in a state of constant “self vaccination”? What’s stopping the production of anti-HBs?

Thank you!
Cheers.

Hello Availlant,
Could you please explain more details of partial cure and why the anti viral therapy is not recommended?

If a person haa Hep BE Antigen non_reactive, and Hep BE Antibody Reactive with ALT 32 and Viral load 392 IU/ml, HBeAntigen negative, would you think partial cure is achieved and anti viral therapy is not recommended?

I would appreciate if you could please advise in detail

I am asking in reference to your response to Kapp. My question is if a person has following blood test, do you think partial cure is achieved and will the antiviral drug is required to use?

HbeAntigen Negative
HBeAntibody Reactive
Viral load 32IU/ml
Hepatitis B Surface Antigen Reactive
Hepatitis B Surface Antibody QL Non-Reactive
ALT 32
AST 28
Liver stiffness 7.1 Kpa

Also could you please let me know know the difference between HBeAntibody and HB surface Antibody QL

Typo, I am asking in reference of availlant response to Karp.

Dear @staystrong ,

You have touched on one of the current and central debates in how therapy for chronic HBV infection should be managed.

The primary goal of current antiviral therapy is to control liver inflammation caused by ongoing active viral replication and prevent the development or progression of liver disease (fibrosis and cirrhosis). Without treatment, liver disease will develop in most people who have chronic HBV infection.

The additional challenge with HBV infection comes from its ability to insert its viral DNA into the chromosomes of infected liver cells (we call this process HBV DNA integration). While this “integrated” viral DNA cannot make virus, it has two negative impacts:

  1. It can still support the production of non-infectious “subviral” particles which block immune function against HBV and prevent the establishment of functional cure.

  2. HBV DNA integration is progressive with continued viral replication. This increases the number of chromosomal disruptions in liver cells over time and leads to the development of liver cancer. This is the primary reason for why the risk of liver cancer is elevated in people with chronic HBV infection.

So with untreated chronic HBV infection, the risk of developing liver cancer is elevated compared to that in healthy individuals.

With partial cure, a person’s immune system has established control over most (but not all) viral replication in the absence of therapy. So in this case liver inflammation is not present and these individuals are not at risk for the development of liver disease. However, integrated HBV DNA is still present (which is why HBsAg can still be present in abundance) and there is still an elevated risk for developing liver cancer (although this risk appears to be lower than with active chronic HBV infection).

With functional cure, we get complete immune control over viral replication (without any therapy present) which most importantly includes REMOVAL of those liver cells with integrated HBV DNA. In this case, the burden of liver cells containing chromosomal disruptions is very low and in these individuals, the risk of liver cancer is almost as low as in healthy individuals. Incidentally, with the removal of these cells, we also eliminate the production of subviral particles, which is why HBsAg loss persists in the absence of therapy with functional cure.

Now in the case of antiviral therapy, we know that the earlier suppression of viral replication is established, the lower the burden of integrated HBV DNA will be in the liver and also the lower the risk for liver cancer will be. However, in most countries, treatment guidelines recommend the introduction of antiviral therapy only after the appearance of liver disease, which in most people will be after many years (if not decades) of chronic infection. We now know that although effective in halting the progression of liver disease in the the infected population at large, these guidelines have failed to have an impact on the overall death rate from HBV because liver cancer is actually becoming more prevalent in the aging HBV infected population.

China has led the way in altering treatment guidelines, now recommending immediate introduction of antiviral therapy in any person testing positive for HBV DNA, regardless of the presence of liver inflammation / disease or not. There are certainly issues with access to therapy with this approach as most people with chronic HBV are either not aware they are infected or are not prescribed therapy due to existing guidelines.

Given the well established long term safety of existing antiviral therapies, I personally agree with China’s approach and we should look at ways to potentially implement these guidelines for all persons who get diagnosed with HBV.

So a person with partial cure is still at elevated risk from liver cancer and treatment should be considered in such a person. In your case however, your viral replication is already extremely low (32 IU/mL) in the absence of therapy. This likely means your benefit from antiviral therapy will be very marginal. Starting on ETV, TDF or TAF will typically reduce HBV DNA to < 10 IU/mL which is not a great reduction in your case. For someone with normal ALT and HBV DNA 2000 IU/mL (this is still partial cure), the decision is easier to make.

@availlant

thank you very much Availlant for your detail response. In my earlier chat it was a typo my latest viral load as of Jan 2024 is 392 IU/ml. In addition, my Hepatitis B Surface Ab Quant is less than 3.1
HBsAg Positive
Hep A IGM non reactive
Hep E AB (IGG) not detected

so if I understand correctly your response, I’m my case starting antiviral treatment ( which will be for lifetime) may not be as beneficial as for people with viral load above 2000. I am 51 yrs. Please advise

Welcome @A7xImpulse

Thanks for joining us and sharing your story.

You have some great questions there.

Unfortunately I can’t answer them but our

professional team will be with you soon.

@availlant @ThomasTu

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Dear @staystrong,

With such a low HBsAg, you are actually close to a functional cure and this may actually improve over time. 391 IU/mL is still a very low viral titer.

Any idea how long you have had the infection (or failing that the date of your original diagnosis)?

Two options to consider are:

  1. Monitor qHBsAg every 6 months for the next year and see of you actually get to HBsAg loss. Here I would also expect HBV DNA to also continually decline.

  2. Start antiviral therapy anyways and also look for HBsAg loss. If you reach HBsAg loss with two consecutive tests 6 months apart, current guidelines indicate stopping therapy becuase functional cure has been achieved.

@availlant

Thank you Availlant for your response. I have been diagnosed back in 2008. I think I got Hep B from dental work but not sure may be back in mid 90 or early twenties.
So in my case would you recommend taking Velmidy 25 mg or Entecavir 0.5mg?

Dear @staystrong ,

Both of these medicines will be highly effective in suppressing HBV replication. Entecavir will be off patent so if you have to pay for your medication this may be a preferred option. TDF is also off patent and is very safe and effective. Vemlidy is also a very good medicine but still under patent protection (and so the most expensive). Vemlidy is used primary in those small fraction of patients who suffer from reduced kidney function or bone demineralization with long term therapy.

@availlant

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Dear @A7xImpulse,

Thanks for sharing your story and these are some great questions that the research community are actively working on.

For anti-HBc, it does not appear to do anything for fighting off an infection (though happy for any immunologists @mat @nina.le.bert @Greg to confirm, deny, or correct this). The likely cause of this is that infected cells continue to secrete HBc (or viral capsids) that continue to stimulate the immune response.

Regarding low levels of anti-HBs response, this may be a function of the test (it may cross react with other antibodies), or indeed reflect the small amount that is produced and then immediately bound to the circulating virus/subviral particles.

Regarding immune response recovery, good question, I don’t really know, and would appreciate the help of some immunologists or a more capable @ScienceExperts in this field.

Hope some of this helps,
Thomas

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Thanks Availlant for your response and guidance.

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